The Voyager design is almost 18 years old and it is on my mind quite a lot these days. (oh rly?)
While I did some research on what I believe where parts that would benefit from improvement, I'm not sure if I want to go that route. My time is limited this year, recreating a slightly morphed version of the original might be too time consuming to be worth it, also I'd like to use the (re)design as a demonstration of what I'm currently able to do. (ahum...)
A different approach would be to go more freely and create a ship that feels like Voyager, but does not follow the original strictly. This would come closer to what was done with the Enterprise when it was upgraded for ST:TMP. Clearly it was still the Enterprise, but it also was modernized to an acceptable 1979 standard. (And beyond, as that ship never really will look outdated.)
I just contacted Kirsten Beyer to hear what she thinks about this, and I created a poll. Thanks for voting! :)
While I did some research on what I believe where parts that would benefit from improvement, I'm not sure if I want to go that route. My time is limited this year, recreating a slightly morphed version of the original might be too time consuming to be worth it, also I'd like to use the (re)design as a demonstration of what I'm currently able to do. (ahum...)
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| Images show a bit of the research phase and a possible (mild) refit direction. |
I just contacted Kirsten Beyer to hear what she thinks about this, and I created a poll. Thanks for voting! :)
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| Like it was taken yesterday....an evenly lid (semi finished?) Enterprise in spacedock for TMP during lighting tests. Photo courtesy of Andrew Probert. |
I voted for the full refit treatment. If you're going to play with a lead ship design, then I think you should take the plunge and really do something new with it.
ReplyDeleteDwl on scifi meshes recently done an upgraded voyager, but followed the design pretty cloesly.. bit of rounding, better details etc.
ReplyDeleteI'd say go full tilt refit.. so much technology learned from her voyage thru the delta quadrant.. and slipstream.. so.. :) all depends on ur time table.. and what you can do during it :)
and oh.. just checked my latest aventine file size... 128mb ... been keeping good care to not let it expode!! :)
Mark, I voted for a full refit. Although I LOVE the direction you're going with the refit currently, I think it will be substantially more awesome without the original (but sweet) Sternbach design holding you back. Besides, this way you can really make it your own.
ReplyDeleteAnd someday, maybe not too far from now, I'll build that LEGO Aventine!
Basic modular changes:
ReplyDelete* The shuttlebay needs to be operational - as you've already demonstrated.
* I'd do away with the tiny moving nacelles and put in nice fixed pylons with Aventine styled nacelles for slipstream travel.
* I'd also replace the deflector dish with something Aventine styled.
* Replace the impulse engines. Soverign styled saucer mounted impulse engines would be my preference. The impulse engines Adam Ihle embedded in his thick pylons also work for me.
Hull changes:
* Take the raised bridge module and stretch it forward and down Aventine style.
* I absolutely would NOT put in a secondary shuttlebay.
Comment #2, The above is how I would do an actual refit, however I would prefer and entirely new ship designed to fill the role that the Intrepid class did.
ReplyDeleteNew all the way for me!
ReplyDeleteActually whenI think of Adam Ihle's Ent F - I think of a massive version of Voyager so I think a Rademaker blend would look amazing. But I was a fan of Voyagers pivotable nacelles - perhaps a high tech version eg. segmented sections to the pylons somthing like the wristband of a watch if you know what I mean.
In any case I look forward to seeing what you come up with Mark!
the problem with moving parts on Starships is damage say the ship gets hit in the pylon area and the nacelle gets locked into one position up or down what would that do to the warp geometry can the ship still go to warp if so what speed would the ship shake like a hyper donkey with Parkinsons. what if one nacelle is locked in up and the other locked in down. I did design a variable geometry ship but it had 4 nacelles and was designed so even if they got locked in odd positions it would not look to messed up and could still go at 5+ warp just not over 9
ReplyDeletein my opinion, there's not a whole lot of wiggle room to create something that is reminiscent of Voyager without basically looking like an Intrepid.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoy looking at your ideas Mr Rademaker, but I wouldn't go for the secondary shuttlebay in the traditional sense - how about something more VTOL-ly? A "drop" or "Lift" hatch on the top/bottom of the shuttlebay through which the Delta Flyer-sized ships could drop down/loft up?
ReplyDeleteHaving said that...a complete refit would also be interesting to see!
Thanks guys!
ReplyDeleteValkyrie: Cool! Yours is about 10% the file size of mine, a fully instanced Vesta still around 1.5gb these days. You did a great job!
Sovereign: Oh make sure to show me some pics of that one! Love your creations! :D
Aqua: I'm rethinking the 2nd bay currently! :)
Don: I personally always thought the tilting nacelle system was a mechanical solution to a rather theoretical problem. To move an entire nacelle to change a warpfield is pretty radical. (It looked rather cool when I first saw it though!) Because it's an unique feature on the Intrepid class only, it might have been solved in a different way soon after it was designed, perhaps by inventing some kind of regulating field controller that reads subspace and adjust the coils output in real-time to keep subspace undamaged. It would require a more intelligent coil but would use no mechanical systems. I like your wristband idea, it would require more mechanics, although that could be done by an exotic alloy that is made of some sort of nano muscle surface with a memory, the problem is that I have no convincing way to visualize how that would work, I know BMW used that sort of principle on a concept car made of a metallic looking fabric. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTYiEkQYhWY)
Data007: I had exactly the same dilemma, it could be a good thing or a bad thing. At least there is some wiggle room. :) I even believe there is enough room to make a substantial difference, without making it unrecognizable as Voyager/Intrepid (ish)
Go for the refit, my friend. There's a couple things to keep in mind here and it's already been written into the novels for which this refit is primarily being made to "fit to":
ReplyDelete1.- Voyager underwent a massive refit at the shipyards. She was torn apart and put back together again to study the dozens if not hundreds of technologies Voyager's crew kit bashed into her existing systems to optimize her efficiency, and finally, to get home. This wasn't at all limited just to Borg tech at all...
2.- Once a ship's been stripped down that much and put back together, you don't just put in the "old garbage" that was obsolete 5 or 6 years before. The novels also touched on them upgrading all of the systems and bringing them up to spec with the technologies of the late 2370s, early 2380s.
3.- Voyager took one hell of a bashing from the Alpha-Beta Quadrant Borg Invasion of 2381, again, this meant hitting a shipyard facility and getting overhauled yet again. You'll recall that even the Sovereign-Class Enterprise-E took major changes. They're not terribly visible to the untrained eye, but if you put the models side-by-side the pylons were moved around, the engines, the saucer, the connecting neckline was also modified, and though overall "she was still the Enterprise", the changes were enough to make her look that much sleeker and by the time Nemesis came around. However, the Enterprise was/is newer than Voyager.
With those points in mind, definitely go for a Voyager refit design like the one you're thinking ;-) Sure the old design has emotional value, but that doesn't mean the updated one won't, also. The movie Constitution-Class Enterprise really grew on everyone that saw the films, and even to this day there's something special about seeing it on screen flying by with its gleaming white hull, attractive blue highlights, and the attention to detail that was placed on simple things such as the hull plating.
Go for it.
I voted for full refit, if it was me I would retool the deflector to look like a latched on deflector similar to the dauntless one, I'd make the nacelles come inward instead of outward in other words bring the closer to the saucer
ReplyDeleteI quite liked this very basic upgrade pic (although I can't find it on this site):
ReplyDeletehttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ncJzLnNZpRo/TfXL7hVwX6I/AAAAAAAADeo/u_ECwvP2GYw/s1600/Voyager+refit.jpg
I never liked the small nacelles on voyager and hated them being 'flat' rather than diagonal to the ship... flat for landing, yes, but not all the time... looked like the ship was dragging them round to me rather than flowing...
link didn't work, typical... 2nd pic down:
ReplyDeletehttp://8of5.blogspot.com/2011/06/mark-rademakers-project-full-circle.html
Please no secondary shuttlebay! It makes the whole ship look unbalanced!
ReplyDeleteI certainly prefer a full refit, compared to a slight modification. But keep in mind that very big changes or ones that seem ridiculous will just be...disregarded... by most fans. Further than that, I can only offer my opinion on what I think would look good...
ReplyDeleteThe re-appearance of a TOS style shuttlebay would look good.
To me, voyager always seemed slightly top-heavy, with the dish weighing more than the secondary hull , and the warp drive being below the ship's primary center of balance didn't help the situation.
The ship might also benefit from a additional impulse deck along the spine
torpedoes have always been Voyager's primary offensive system- what about a torpedo turret like the sovereign-class?
Maybe draw a little from the “suit of armor” that voyager donned in the final episode. I liked the fittings over the deflector.
Dynametric tailfins please!! :oD
ReplyDeleteKidding!
I really like the profile you've drawn above Mark.
Re: the Nacelles - since the slipstream drive is a brand new technology, I can't imagine Voyager still having the moving nacelles - Aventine them up! But I have imagined the newly reconstructed Voyager as having fixed nacelles.
http://www.3dscifi.com/forums/showthread.php?2573-Vesta-Class-USS-Aventine&p=121857#post121857
ReplyDeleteLatest render of the Aventine there Mark!! ( sorry for hijacking ur voyager thread for this..!!! just lettin u know I'm still working on it!) :)
oh.. and always thought that after the invention of slipstream, warp technology would take a back burner.. like props when jet engines were invented.. there's some invention, but its done only by a few people... egh :)
A full Voyager refit would be great.
ReplyDeleteThe secondary shuttle bay is one way to go, but the ship isn't all that large. If you really want a huge shuttle bay, then scrapping the tail bay for the upper position could work well.
Where you want to move the rear tubes, what about putting sensors in there instead of the windows, and making the deck thick enough to hold shuttles under the bay? You could move the dual torpedo tubes to the Sovereign's rear position, and put a giant impulse engine in the original rear tube position, taking them off the pylons. Enhanced maneuvering thruster in the style of little impulse engines could also be added, since the ship is supposed to be unusually maneuverable for her size.
I love the fixed pylons, with lengthened nacelles. The elongated bow is also very good. Although, I always thought of slipstream causing lots of hull stress if it's not handled right, so I always expected extremely sturdy, or no, pylons as with the fake Dauntless.
Another option is to scrap the bridge super structure, and have a clean arc from nose to two thirds along the hull, like the Aventine.
give voy an arc from nose to shuttlebay, make the main shuttlebay slightly larger, keep the bridge super structure to help distinguish voy from the aventine, and stretch the tail end of the ship out further
ReplyDelete-ashrond
Aarghh!!! I keep checking out the updates, hoping to see something new for Voyager. :D
ReplyDeleteI hope to have an update soon! Working on the pylon area atm, the biggest structural change is around there. :)
DeleteCan't wait. I still think it's awesome a fellow Dutchie will be creating the new Voyager. :)
ReplyDelete:) "The" new Voyager might be too much.
DeleteMy version will look pretty different from the original Voyager, so I have to clear with some people if it can be the official Novelverse version. (At least for the Full Circle Novels.)
But before I get there, I have to finish it first... :)
P.s. I noticed you started a blog about good food.... I must admit that I eat super easy meals everyday. I just dont have the energy to cook and I lack the patience to sit down for more than an hour. I'm single, I think that has great influence too. :)
Good luck with your blog!
It has been nearly 2 months, do you have any sketches to throw us a bone? :)
ReplyDeleteWorth posting a few sketches and seeing what everyone thinks. In my view, the Intrepid could certainly do with some refinement, though a refit would let it fit into canon better than just redesigning the original and sort of pretending that it always looked that way.
ReplyDeleteAargh!! Two months, and nothing yet! Suspense... killing....me....
ReplyDeleteCan't wait to see some new stuff Mark.
Personally, I'd rather see your designs for the new ships in the fleet. The Voyager refit can be done whenever.
ReplyDelete